Curse

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

There are many threads dedicated to what the fourth chapter should be called, what professions (if any) should be added, what areas of the map it should take place in, etc.

My feeling is that all that speculation fails to address what the next campaign must accomplish in order to keep the Guild Wars world growing and vibrant.

This isn't a "Guild Wars is dying" thread <shudder> but a discussion about how the 4th chapter of Guild Wars can strengthen the overall game.

Here are some of my thoughts:

Guild Wars will not benefit from another chapter that spreads out its player base further. I believe that the next expansion should actually be set inside one or all of the previous chapters. This would keep the current population in place without initiating the usual diaspora to new content areas.

Not to say new content can't be introduced but it can be done using the existing maps and outposts. Obviously, there will have to be some enticements but I feel that there are many ways to add to the existing game that would attract people to buying a new chapter. (Auction Houses, for example.)

In effect, the new expansion would have in game "advertising' because previous campaign owners would be mingling with the new campaign owners.

This doesn't necessarily require that ANet:

-add new skills
-add new professions

Anet could simply choose to add 3 new RACES*, one for each previous chapter. Thus, using the existing environs in the game and ensuring that the population centers don't drift further apart.

(*NOTE: The new races don't have to be non-human, but Centaurs, Dwarves, Charr, seem to be obvious possibilities.)
In order to pull this off, the next expansion would be focused on current campaign owners instead of creating a standalone campaign as they have done before.

Additionally, ANet could roll all 3 chapters up together in the next expansion with the addition of the new races. This would be a good way to have a compilation release along with new content.

ANet doesn't have to give up their model of releasing standalone campaigns, but they need to have a "breather" every now and then in order to stabilize and centralize the player base of previous campaigns. Doing this every 3 chapters should be adequate.

Generally speaking:

The priority of next campaign should be placed on strengthening the existing game world. The expanding universe approach often causes a hollow world effect. The next campaign should focus inward but in a big and interesting way.

This doesn't have to leave new players/Guild Wars adopters out in the cold; it just needs to create new destinations within the existing game world.

Thoughts, ideas, criticisms welcome.

EDIT: Emphasis added, no text changed.

Sven788 · Feb 05, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

/signed for most of it, but RACES OMG? this isn't WoW

Keithark · Feb 05, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

As long as they make a good area that does not have to have a "perfect" team (like DoA) or that takes 4-15 hours to complete I will be happy. I still do Tombs regularly because it is just more fun than spamming SF for 3 hours just to get close to the end and have one person e7 (monk) and another leave (tank). Also they need to seperate PvP and PvE..one should not affect the other in any way. And the thing that would make it the best of all....character specific quests. Make a different set of quests for elly, ranger, warrior, etc. I love the game, but after you finish every quest and every mission with a character or 2 then having to do it with the other 10 of your characters is boring, so if it was different each time it would be lots more fun...or they could let you do everything with one character and then you don't have to redo it with another unless you want to.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven788

/signed for most of it, but RACES OMG? this isn't WoW

That's for sure, and I don't want it to be WoW, lol.

But, we aren't talking Nightelves and Orcs. Granted the slightly unoriginal Dwarves are already in the game world, but Charr and Centaurs are rather unique.

It doesn't have to be Races, but my point is that something could be done to fold a future expansion into the existing world for the reasons I stated above.

The hook for a new chapter could be a combination of new skills, races, professions and/or perhaps, game improvements such as an auction house.

Hex Nexus · Feb 05, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

I agree that races would be interesting, but for people like myself who have already invested time in many characters, it would kind of suck to be able to only have 2 new characters that would be non-human. Though I would love to gallop around as a Centaur or do /roar on my Charr.

EDIT- If they did implement races, I would still want new professions.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hex Nexus

I agree that races would be interesting, but for people like myself who have already invested time in many characters, it would kind of suck to be able to only have 2 new characters that would be non-human. Though I would love to gallop around as a Centaur or do /roar on my Charr.

EDIT- If they did implement races, I would still want new professions.

Adding new races/professions aside, the next expansion could offer 4 character slots instead of the usual two slots <for prior campaign owners>.

thezed · Feb 05, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

/unsigned

No personal offence intended, but you really don't get Anet's business model nor the extent to which players would complain about these ideas.

These ideas seem like they would not only cost Anet a lot of money in the form of fewer sales, but it would also raise a HUGE outcry from players. Both from players complaining about adding new races and making the game more "WoW like" and from players complaining that they did not get all new content. In addition, not adding new skills or professions compltly leaves out the PvP comunity, resulting in even more lost sales.

Anets business model revolves around creating all new content every 6 months, expanding on both the PvE and the PvP gameplay. This includes adding new missions, quests, exploreable areas, towns/outposts, skills, armor, weapons, and probably new classes.

If your looking for a game that adds new content existing areas, or need some kind of additional closure on old plotlines, you may be in the wrong place.

Now, so this isn't just a "rant" post, some ideas of my own:

-Hero system needs to be expanded on and refined. New hero's added in next chapter, a story heavily centered on those heros. Restrictions also need to be added, restrictions to re-encurage PuG playing and keep this from becoming a single player game.

-Another form of PvP that allowes PvE players to "ease" into PvP. Factions tried with the 2 Luxon Vs Kurziks maps but did not go over the best. Possibly a 6v6 challage (so HA can move back to 8v8).

-Another idea that may not be as good is to create sub-proffesions. Such as having a Warrior brance off and choose between 2 or 3 sub-profesions. This would include adding new skills and attributes but not need a ton of new armor and the other trappings that come with all new proffesions. (Some would argue that "sub-proffesions" could be done with just diffrent builds...they would be right. Thats why this idea is not the best for this game.)

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by thezed

/unsigned

No personal offence intended, but you really don't get Anet's business model nor the extent to which players would complain about these ideas.

My suggestion ISN"T mutually exclusive, and I know full well how ANet's business model works. It works well, but it needs to be sustainable.

But, ANet's current business model is the equivalent of strip mining without the added benefit of planting trees or reclaiming the exploited areas.

I think ANet can retain its business while strengthening its base.

This is what I meant by taking a "breather". ANet would still be selling an expansion and attracting new players, so this isn't a detour from what it has always set out to do. BUT, the focus would be on the established game world in order to counter the expanding universe we currently face.

Your ideas are great and they can be implemented to accomplish what the next expansion needs to do. This discussion is less about my specific ideas and more about ensuring sustainability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thezed

These ideas seem like they would not only cost Anet a lot of money in the form of fewer sales, but it would also raise a HUGE outcry from players. Both from players complaining about adding new races and making the game more "WoW like" and from players complaining that they did not get all new content.

I just don't agree that adding new races makes Guild Wars more "WoW" like. I mean, playing the game over the internet doesn't make it more WoW-like so why should adding races be exclusively a WoW owned concept. It's silly.

Besides, there are races already in the game world already established. Just because you add races doesn't mean you have to add "racial abilities" etc.

And new content doesn't require a geographical expansion to the game world. Yes, new instances specific to the expansion could be added along with the usual new skill, profession and so forth. Ensuring the usual hooks are in place to encourage people to buy new chapters doesn't require ANet to follow the established pattern completely.

The KEY is to beef up the center of the game world. The next campaign could be an overlay of existing campaigns.

In fact, there could be 2 price ranges: the usual price of expansions for prior campaign owners and a somewhat higher price for the chapter compilation and expanded content for new players. <just an idea>

My point, there are a lot of ways a new expansion could be implemented without creating a whole new area completely separate from the previous chapters.

Expanding the game, attracting new players WHILE retaining and strengthening the existing game.

Heretofore, the outward leaning expansions have served to sap away the vitality of the established game.

System_Crush · Feb 05, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Anet at stated before the first Chapter was even released that each chapter for guild wars would be standalone and that you would not need any of the previous chapters to play it.

Your suggestion seems to contradict that, instead to get a real benefit from this chapter you would have to have all the previous chapters as adding stuff to multiple chapters it will be spread and there will only be a little in each continent.

You mention how ever that this is a discusion thread not a signed/notsigned post
(that's hard in these forums, there are certain people who must start a seperate thread for every idea they have)

So I will add what ever I feel needs to be done.

I do not disagree that we need a improved system for selling our items, but going straight to Auction Houses from World of Warcrack, or the Player shop system form AO(in factions you actually have citys to place the shops in) is perhaps not the way to go.

Item posting with a mouseover description (trade channel only of cource) would be a start, reducing spam and improving sellability.

But truly something GW'is would be ideal somethign that is not a direct rip, and specifically something acceciple from the battle isles and normal citys, perhaps you could even pay in baltazarfaction for certain items.

Also I have a contradicting wish.
First I would not want more heroes in the new expantion, they have dealt a vicious blow to the social play in GW with their appereance, the next expantion should lessen the pain not enchance the effect.
Also there should definatly be found a way to get players to team with other players in PvE more.
The master reward in chanta mission relies on speed which seems to be a way for players to prefere real people over heroes.
Perhaps larger teams 10-12 meant for splitting up the teams during the mission, would asside from a nice gimic also be a good way to get players to coöperate again.

The above is contradicting with that I want Heroes on which I can change more(Heroes are bad, I just don't want to be good)
Each skill in GW has a hidden description for NPC's of when to use it.
This affects both mobs, henchmen and heroes.
There are certain skills you will block or not put in a their skill bar at all, because you just don't agree with this use-discription.

My Olias for instance insists on using well of power when there is only 1 foe of a group left or when they are all dead, it is utterly useless when used that way, its a static effect when the party will move on soon it should not be cast, rangers and ritualists don't summon their spirts after battle do they? It should be used during the battle, which thank fully he does too, he however also wastes energy on recasting it when the effect has not yet worn off from the last time he cast it.
The use-discription I think includes corpse controll, I do not want him to use the skill for that I have skills for corpse controll on my own character.

Because of the amount of skills, there are a sisable amount of factors to work with in the use-descriptions.
I suggest that players are allowed to chance the use descriptions for their hero's skills(for each skill on a hero individually).
The minimalistic aproach would be that similar to the Shift+Click to block you could Alt+Click to modify usage.
And then set check boxes for the functions of the skill.
That way I could uncheck Corpse Controll/Cast when recharged and check do not re-use while in effect and he should use Well of power correctly.

Better would be however you could use sentance structuing scripting(or sentacne building scripting not exactly sure on the name) to defince when a skill should be used.
For those who do not know what sentance structuring scripting is, I'll give a discription.
Its had to make for the dev's but its the easyes form to use for laymen.
A use decription is formed out of a few sentances, you would built them by selecting pieces of centaces from a list, and filling in the gaps manually with primitive values(Integers, Longs, Strings, Doubles).
Use-description for well of power:
Do not use ...
Do not use when, there are less than ..
Do not use when, there are less than _ foes in ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in the agro bubble of ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in the agro bubble of any living party member...

This sentance can be put together in a little over 6 mouse clicks, and is obviously one of many, many variations.
It could be folowed by the sentance parts 'or' & 'and' and then another statement.
This way players could instruct heroes how to function better easily while still giving acurate instructions.

As a side note:
I know of the use descriptions as skill use is not directly linked to the type AI would recognise the skill as.
The dev that made the use-description for the necro skills, got a little over anctious, as necro mobs are the only mobs in GW that actively team spike.
Before this damage tracker was introduced you would at times suddenly die when 3 or more necros where around and go "WTF?!"
Now you suddenly die and see in the damage tracker vile touch X5.
It started happenign after the AI update in hte first month after Factions was released and I think it is still in function.
Although annoying at times it is actually fun to have some diference in the AI where a certain type of mob is smarter than others.(though scarabs being smarter than humand elementlists is kinda wierd too)
It does not happen all the time, there is a whole bunch of conditions that have to be for filled before they attempt a team spike, but it happens every once in a while, always at times you didn't see it comming ofcource.

Also the new FFXII has a gambit system to mange your companions, that is not unlike the sentance structuring scripting, exept you have to unlock each sentance part, which for GW would only lead to annoyance I think.

bg_solidsnake · Feb 05, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

no races pls

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg_solidsnake

no races pls

The gist of the whole topic thread isn't about adding playable new races to Guild Wars, but I do find the clichéd hangups about adding playable races to Guild Wars to be somewhat psychotic.

Really, I'll need it explained to me, because I don't get the opposition.

Quote:

OMG, it's a playable Centaur character...arrrgghhhh! End of the world!!!!!

The issue at hand is about avoiding any further watering down of the playerbase.

The game is already suffering a social problem and has a lot of issues regarding player interaction, another expansion that exacerbates this problem is something to be avoided.

Creating a "gold rush event" with every new expansion and making ghost towns of previous chapters is not a sustainable plan. It needs to be modified and unified.

Sustainable development.

Other games have a far less ambitious schedule for releasing major expansions, ANet obviously has to make money and the expansions are its life's blood.

BUT this raises the challenge of keeping the game from becoming too fragmented.

The next expansion should strive to bolster the currently released content and address some of the issues that the game is accumulating.

So, I suggest that a rethinking of the ANet strategy is reasonable, the 4th chapter could be a "breather" opportunity, a chance to consolidate and perhaps even redefine some of the areas that are fast becoming the Achilles heels of the game design.

Dougal Kronik · Feb 05, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Guild Wars must introduce more character development and roleplaying to keep the player base that sustains its business model floating.

If they included playable races - that would be good.

There must also be a reason to play your character beyond the end game.

From some of the Beta tests I've been involved in playing, the introduction of harvesting resources and crafting would be a geat addition to Guild Wars. It gives players more option for roleplaying and character development along different paths.

The completion of all quests, Protector, and GMC of a campaign pretty much sums up the end of the desire to play further in that campaign. The "Hard Mode" still to come is simply a band aid fix that will have those that completed the campaign a tiny bit more to do.

*****SPOILER*****

The Hard Mode should have new outposts that you can only access if you have Protector, and the missions and bonuses must continue the lore that has been developed. There is not much sense to redo D'Alessio Seaboard with more difficult mobs, if our character already knows that the White Mantle are the enemy due to the misdirection of the Lich, and are therefore doing the right thing by trying to stop Abaddon's manipulation of the Lich.

thezed · Feb 05, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

First I would not want more heroes in the new expantion, they have dealt a vicious blow to the social play in GW with their appereance,

I agree, increasing the number of hero's per person would make this worse. But I dont THINK simply adding more hero's to our available selection would make the PuG issue worse. Hero's are a great way to add some depth to the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Guild Wars must introduce more character development and roleplaying to keep the player base that sustains its business model floating.

I agree completly. A deeper story with more character development is needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

The Hard Mode should have new outposts that you can only access if you have Protector, and the missions and bonuses must continue the lore that has been developed.

Interesting idea. Here is a slight change to it. Have "Hard mode" use the same outposts but change the story/goal. This would minimize the development time (no new art) but add endgame content and depen the lore or add closure to some dangling plot threads (e.g. the fate of the Charr).

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 05, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

....Anet at stated before the first Chapter was even released that each chapter for guild wars would be standalone and that you would not need any of the previous chapters to play it.

Your suggestion seems to contradict that, instead to get a real benefit from this chapter you would have to have all the previous chapters as adding stuff to multiple chapters it will be spread and there will only be a little in each continent....

You got the idea with your ideas.

I believe that there would be a way to create a new expansion that is standalone but also focuses on the one or all of the existing campaigns. (preferably all)

I brought up new playable races as being a relatively easy way to do this...one new race per campaign. But, obviously there would have to be much more content than just new races.

I am as "contradictory" as you are concerning Heroes. On one hand, I'd love to see them expanded (more allowed in party, better control, etc.) but I also view them as detrimental to the game community. I am bothered that Guild Wars has become a solo game for me and yes, I choose to use Heroes. Of course, we all "choose" to use automobiles even while we acknowledge the negative impact they have on our environment. But, sincethe "creator" of the world didn't introduce the internal combustion engine, the analogy falls a little flat.

I feel that ANet may have to introduce an incentive system for playing with real players, perhaps by increasing % of gold, loot, faction or XP when teamed with other players.

The challenge for Guild Wars, in my opinion, is to improve the social interaction between players and add more layers of interest for each player with his character. The natural opportunity to accomplish that is with an expansion, but the challenge is to release an expansion that doesn't add to the problems of a fragmented player base and a tendency for solo play.

DreamWake · Feb 05, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

First of all, I'd like to thank Kuldebar Valiturus for his insightful posts.

I think it's really interesting how Guild Wars (a revolutionary type of game) has created its own unique problem. How can we keep an expanding world from the "hollow" effect that the op is talking about. I mean, think about Factions as it is now, then add a hypothetical fourth and fifth campaign . . . and then imagine how empty it will be!

Personally, I think that the OP is right, the game needs more unity.

I say "needs" because, like the OP, I feel like A-Net can't keep this pace up in a realistic, or responsible manner. How can they keep coming up with new content? New professions? New skills? I mean, it's amazing how far they've gone for so long already, but really, instead of spreading out the campaigns and the originality, A-Net has to unify the game in order to keep an incentive to sell older, previous campaigns. The game won't survive if they don't, and that's an economic incentive in itself.

I would change:
1. The hero system should only be allowed in districts where the population count is lower than X amount of players. If more than X amount of players are available, then only one hero may be carried per person. The number obviously would have to be worked out by A-Net.

2. Make the next campaign dungeon heavy, with a heavy focus on new items and teamwork rather than new professions.

3. Make "underwater" or "air" cities that will connect the three campaigns.

ValaOfTheFens · Feb 06, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Races: I agree that new races would be good. I'd love to be a Margonite. They're so glowy.

But then you'd have to change a few story points because some things wouldn't make sense for races like Centaur or Charr. I'd like add in the Tengu to the list of possible races.

Professions: No new professions!! What we need are new attributes with skills to go with them. To be fair, the new attribute would only be availble to to primaries. Example, Rangers could have something like Reconnaisance, which would allow their aggro bubble to shrink a bit for every 3 AP and its skills would involve a combination of traps and preparations.

Standalone Model: It works ok. Though I think gameplay suffers because you only have 6 months for decent PuGs and general player togetherness before the current campaign is abandoned for the next.

PvP: ANet needs to come up with something new thats actually good enough to interest even the most hardened PvP veteran. PvP is the blood of GW, without which PvE would die due to player burnout.

PvE: I also agree that we need to use some more of the map we already have. I'd love for the storyline to center around Orr and the Gods in general. The lack of info on Chp.4 has fueled alot of similar speculation. Also, I wanna know what the glowing treasure chest in Kaineng is for. Its been bothering me for months. Maybe Gwen will pop out of it!

Meat Axe · Feb 06, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Okay, here's what I think.

Races are a bad idea, not simply because WoW has them (though this is a pretty good reason) but because if I play a game where I can choose a race, I want the storyline to have race-specific content. I don't want to choose a race just to be part of that race. I think that's ridiculous. Think about it from a GW point of view. All the races have some sort of conflict between other races. If they were to add a centaur playable race, I would want it so that centaurs start in a different area, have a completely different storyline, and aren't allowed in to human outposts and cities until they have done something truly amazing to set aside the grudges. I don't see a charr ever being allowed into a human outpost, or vice versa. If you have 3 or 4 different races, that's a lot of new content that I feel would be needed to make a feature such as this worth it. I just don't see Anet wanting to put that much work into adding something that isn't needed.

Also, I would be extremely disappointed if there were less heroes in the next chapter. I love heroes. I prefer to play PvE by myself, because I explore and collect treasure and all that sort of thing. I also prefer to not be playing with strangers, since I don't know them and can't have much interaction with them. I still chat to my guild and my friends, I just play mostly by myself. I think the thought that heroes have taken out the social aspect of the game is ridiculous. If people want to play with other people, play with other people for God's sake. Don't complain about the cool feature that some players do like a lot. Anyway, how much socialising can you really do when you're fighting through waves of enemies during a mission? I have never been in a party that said more than a few words. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWake

I would change:
1. The hero system should only be allowed in districts where the population count is lower than X amount of players. If more than X amount of players are available, then only one hero may be carried per person. The number obviously would have to be worked out by A-Net.

2. Make the next campaign dungeon heavy, with a heavy focus on new items and teamwork rather than new professions.

I think that trying to force players to play with other people would really isolate those of us who prefer to only play with friends or with heroes. Like I said above, there are those players that like playing with people, and those that don't.

Also, I would probably stop playing the game, or at least never play the particular campaign, that is dungeon-heavy. I despise dungeons. It's the main reason I only play most D&D RPGs once. I've never even made it past the second chapter in Icewind Dale (as an example). There's just too many dungeons. I understand that a lot of people enjoy making their way through dungeons, but there are also a lot of people who hate them. I just think dungeons are boring. There's nothing new about them, no amazing aesthetics to the scenery. It's all just rock walls and a few slimey monsters.

And probably my final argument. Never recycle areas. It's lame, and looks lazy. The next chapter should be new and exciting, not a story in the same areas as the previous campaigns. However, the suggestion that Orr features, or some other area we have heard about but never seen, wouldn't be too bad. But we need a new continent to explore. I enjoy exploring and seeing all the sights.

Well, that's just my input. Feel free to flame my opinions, or call me antisocial for only wanting to play with friends, or whatever the usual proceedure is in these matters. I've said my piece, and you can agree or tear it down at your own leisure.

tijo · Feb 06, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

I also believe a new continent is something we need for the next campain altho adding more content to the existing games would also be something i would definetly like to see. There are a lot of areas on each continent that cannot be explored and the developpers could add content in those place. For instance, i would like to see a follow up after the last titan quest mostly about what's happening with ascalon and the charr. Basically, the continent would be the same but the areas would be different meaning that those owning only 1 of the 2 campains taking place on the same continent would have access to only the part the campaing allows him to play with the possible exceptions of towns like LA, Kamadan and Kaineng.

Something to incite players to join together too would be fun altho like Meat axe said, it would be important not to make it a pain for ppl who prefer to play with heroes/henchies or friends. I dunno, maybe split the districts between ppl who want to play with only humans and the rest who want to play with half human/half hench parties or just full heroes/hench parties.

I also agree that dungeons shouldnt be a big part of the game but there should be a few for ppl who like dungeons and like to farm too. I'd like to see new races but then again, adding races to or from previous campains would be contradictory to the storylines, with the possible exception of tengus in cantha so its not a big deal if there are no new races.

Lastly, i agree that new professions would be a pain, i curently have 10 chars, 1 for each profession and i gave up doing every campain with each one of them because its taking too much time. So yeah doing something new with the professions they already have would be nice.

actionjack · Feb 06, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

It is an intersting idea.. and some points are pretty good, and would certaionly be doable. However, there are some stuff I don't agree on too.

it would be somewhat alright to re-use the exisiting, but not to all extend. For one, people want new stuff, and seeing the old world again isn't all that appealing. Also there are still need of seperation, as not all people will have both campaign (which would still lead to some degree of player-spread).

I would say just allow a limited cross between whats new and old, allow them one of few place where they could meet.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...52#post2325552

Also a Universal PvE Island (proposed by Lyra Smash) would be something along that line too.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075967

------------------------------------------

For race, I do think there are several way to do it, and a good way to "refresh" the game.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=28

Still uncertain what way is the best.. but I would gun for a new 6 core profession with the new race....

(and sorry for the use of link... but it save me time to retype my thoughts again...)

Senator Tom · Feb 06, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

races would be cool, the thing i really dont like about the 2nd and 3rd campaigns is the storyline and how you have to complete the missions to proceed. what they should do is release all three games together, get rid of the storyline and just pop in a leet boss at the end of each mission